Cows and Big Dogs – Tony Morris & Isa Gordon in conversation

Their debut record together “Wake Up Baby” is out now on Huntleys and Palmers and Tony’s first-ever vinyl release. It comes backed with “Syringe Moustache” and remixes from Auntie Flo and 100% Positive Feedback, and it sounds, by all accounts, even better than it looks.

Ahead of that, we handed each of them a questionnaire and let them get on with it.

The result, much like their stage show, involves zero friendly glances and a tension that suits them both perfectly.

Isa’s asks Tony

Ye dropped me home after rehearsing one day, stuck in traffic we got onto the topic of 50 Cent, I can’t remember how. I was taken aback when you said 50 Cent is always the first thing your car media library plays, since it automatically categorises things first numerically and then alphabetically. Anyway – I think this was the first time we’d spoken about rap and I wondered how deep that penchant goes?

Actually, it doesn’t go that deep. My go-to artists are Wu-Tang Clan and in particular their double album Wu-Tang Forever. Second place would go to Gravediggaz who are an offshoot of Wu-Tang. Dr Dre and Eminem and some of Tupac I love too. But I loathe gratuitous ‘anything’ and for me almost all rap artists revel in gratuitous swearing, gratuitous sex, gratuitous violence, gratuitous sloganising. For me the music comes first and I love Wu-Tang Clan because they are symphonic, orchestral, heavily beat driven, heavily pulse driven. They know when to tone down the dynamics to a minimalist murmur and then let the sound swell to a soul shaking crescendo. 50 Cent I consider to be a pop singer and a fantastic pop singer at that – heavy beats, rich baritone voice, fantastic timing and an almost erotic sensibility without becoming crass or lazily ‘nudge nudge, wink wink’.

2) When you first asked me to play guitar for you on stage you already seemed to have an elaborate idea of the character you wanted me to inhabit. So I wonder have you predetermined what you want stage Tony to transmit?

What I like about this question is your remembering that disquisition I delivered on the persona I wished you to inhabit on stage at the Queens Park Arena. And frankly, I think that you rose to the occasion superbly. The end result was a totally un-Glasgow Underground Scene set up. There were zero friendly/joyful/fun-filled exchanges of glances between us. There was an almost puritanical relationship between us. It was like two juggernauts interacting warily with each other. There was a tension between us. I think that tension made the performance unique. But to answer your question: I have a very set recipe for my stage persona – namely, the persona that I inhabit most comfortably in my own life: stiff, uncompromising, isolated, focused on the musical vibe or on what I am reading or on the duties I perform in church. I only unstiffen when I’m with children and then my silly fun side comes out.

3) It seems like you’ve had many jobs over the years, off the top of my head teacher, taxi driver, bookkeeper, psychology lecturer – was work always adjacent to your other interests or was there any of these you were particularly invested in?

I realised within 15 seconds of becoming a teacher that I couldn’t teach anything to anyone. I could lecture but I couldn’t teach. I loved taxi driving but I wasn’t ’one of the guys’ and so I loathed the almost compulsory gatherings at the end of the shift when we met at the all-night filling station and exchanged accounts of that nights incidents: I just wanted to go home. Bookkeeping I liked because it opened up the world of the small businessman and that was a fascinating slice of civilisation. Psychology lecturing was fine but come the 90s and one was expected to facilitate small group discussion rather than adopt the role of the Victorian lecturer which was my preferred role, So after 10 years I called it a day. Incidentally. In parallel to that 10 years I also served on Strathclyde’s Children’s Panel administering juvenile justice – another damp squid. I would have loved work to be an integral part of my interests but alas it was never to be. Actually, I always wanted to be a commuter and work in a dull admin job in an office and then leave work behind me at 5pm and spend the evening on exotic self-consuming interests. Alas that was never to be either.

4) Your Instagram artistry seems to have nailed something of the format there, there’s a kinda demystification between the audience and yerself, like showing your sketches very consistently. I reckon it is polar opposite to how I work! Was this a conscious choice, as in allowing the medium to be the message? Or did it just happen to fit what you were up to?

You have it in a nutshell – it just happened to fit with what I was up to.

5) Octopi, discuss.

I love them. I only eat food that has some romantic association with ages old generations of European or maybe Graeco-Roman peoples – with a dash of Anatolia, the Levant and the Russian steppes.

6) It’s amazing that you still keep a finger on the pulse of modern music. I already find my bandwidth for collecting and listening to new music dwindling. Have you always had this passion for music? When did your appetite for the Glasgow ‘Underground / DIY’ scene pop up?

John Peel is responsible for everything. He introduced me to music outside the mainstream. There was a hiatus of about ten years after John died and then Laurie Pitt introduced me to Keith and Jonnie’s radio show. Laurie, Keith and Jonnie are Glasgow based. I adhere to most things Glaswegian. Everything fitted together – my 24/7 passion for music (that’s not explicable – it’s a given), my love of Glasgow and the fact that Laurie, Keith and Jonnie were into electronic music and also avant-garde music. That’s not a great answer, I suspect.

7) Captain Beefheart of Frank Zappa?

Captain Beefheart by a country mile. I view Zappa as a facilitator of other artists. He is one of the most fascinating and humorous and indeed erudite of speakers whereas Captain Beefheart is a crashing bore when he speaks. But Beefheart is probably my favourite artist.

How important is ‘community’ to you? You can be as scathing or lauding as you wish.

Community is very important to me so long as I don’t have to participate in it. I like to be surrounded by people and I will expend energy and money to support their welfare but I’d rather read a book than chew the fat with them.

Tony’s ask Isa

I find you old-fashioned. You look like what I imagine a typical British film star from the 1950s Elstree Studios era. Also you express yourself in a very non-modern way – down to earth, no-nonsense, quick witted almost what would once have been considered pure Yorkshire eg calling a spade a shovel. Also, I find the opinions you express do not fit in with the stereotypes of female Gen Z or Gen X or whatever they are called. In short you seem to have popped up from another era. This is a great relief to me since I never feel that I’m walking on eggshells or that I’m going to put my foot in it when we’re discussing musical projects. Your cultural reference crosses many genres and many eras. As a consequence we’re not having to continually explain ideas to each other: we get each other’s cultural references. Discuss

I learned a lot of mid- and late-century pop from my dad as a wean and just kept listening to music almost constantly wherever I had access to it. When I was studying and working as an engineer — long stretches of computer work — I listened to a huge amount, across eras and genres. I’ve also had musical companions my whole life who’ve widened that spectrum further. I could just as easily say that your taste in modern club music doesn’t fit the stereotype either, so I suppose there’s a good wedge of crossover. My auntie says I’m 100 years old, but that’s news to me.

I dream a lot and often don’t want to wake up from them. Alfred Adler claimed that cowards dream the most. Discuss.

I’ve generally gone to bed late and woken up early, usually running around like a blue-arsed fly, so I don’t really allow myself much space for dreaming. Intoxicants don’t help with dreaming either, since getting aff it and working less, I’ve become dreamier and value my sleep more. I was briefly interested in the teachings of Marie-Louise von Franz, she’s adamant that there’s a lot to be gained from dream analysis. I kept a dream journal for a wee while, but it didn’t amount to much. I don’t think I’ve thought about it enough to attach any notion of cowardice to enjoying your dreams – bit harsh!

Swimming. Discuss.

Getting back in the pool was another pillar in getting aff it. I try to go once a week now – often fail – and do about sixty laps. I swam a lot as a child and young teenager, I had a great teacher; she was fierce. I still remember the first time I noticed that odd sensation of sweating buckets while submerged. I like the intensity of the movement, the coordination of a good stroke, and the fact that it’s not load-bearing. It feels good on the other side of it… delayed gratification and all that.

Have you ever felt like a fraud?

Yes. When I moved to the University of Glasgow, I’d never really met properly posh people before. I felt my education had been subpar and that I wasn’t smart enough to be there. My accent was also a point of ridicule, which didn’t help.

I feel it as well when I’m playing music with people who have amazing theory, lots of tuition and years of structured practice. I’ve largely taught myself since my teens, aside from a few YouTubers and the odd guitar and singing lesson, so that comparison can still creep in.

Think of three people who have left an imprint on how you think about the world or culture or indeed yourself.

My Great Auntie Sheila (the world)

Keith McIvor (culture)

Martha the dog (indeed myself)

Watching a video about medieval nuns and monks and the meaning of their clothing.

Do you consider your clothes as an expression of self image?

Not really. Comfort comes first for me — I like being able to traverse any terrain in any weather. I cycle everywhere, so my clothes need to facilitate that.

That said, I do appreciate good material and a nice cut. If something is functional, has a bit of flex, and is made from quality fabric, that’s pretty much the pinnacle for me.
Do you aim to leave your mark on the history of music as in wanting to radicalise, straighten out, cauterise, add to the canon? In other words do you think your music is important?

I don’t really think that is for me to say, though I suppose when it comes to folk music, I like hammering down the point of re-interpretation to keep it alive, I hate foosty notions of tradition (maybe to my detriment sometimes).

Are you evolving as a person through your music? Or vice versa? Or is their a symbiotic relation between the two?

Eh that is a tricky one, certainly patching engineering for a while after lockdown to focus on music changed me, for better or worse. It has sent me loopy but has also given me much meaning, focus and flow. So aye I guess that’s symbiotic.

Are you scared of anything?

Cows and big dogs.

Tony Morris and Isa Gordon’s Wake Up Baby is out now