One Record Is All They Needed: Indifferent Dance Centre Interviewed

Indifferent Dance Centre were one of those groups that seemed to materialise out of thin air only to ‘disappear’ just as quickly as they originally emerged. Comprised of Lizzy Dowling (vocals / lyrics), Christopher Binns (guitar) and brothers Ashley Barrett (bass) and Douglas Barrett (drums / guitar & bass when required) the group came together in Chichester at the outset of the 1980s as likeminded friends, all characterised by a self-contained resolve, a thorough lack of pretension and a determination to make a record in the same spirit as their punk / DIY contemporaries, as well as influential predecessors like The Desperate Bicycles.  

Outcasted in a town that fell outside of more established areas of activity and one that was shaped, at that time, by Thatcherism and Middle England conservatism, they were nevertheless enthused by the encounters they had with punk, cultivating an active appreciation for its many aesthetic dimensions as well as harbouring later more specific affinities for the likes of Gang of Four and Joy Division. 

Through the ventures of local peers, out-of-town gigs, zines and the recommendations of school-friends the group were afforded a fair amount of exposure to punk’s initial detonation and its myriad reverberations, yet they were never close enough to the usual metropolitan focal points to be part of the noise and the hype. Reliably informed but not encumbered by outside influence they developed independently and were in many ways compelled to, given the dearth of interest in bands from Chichester at the time. 

Alongside Gang of Four and Joy Division they developed assorted, individual interests in pop, disco, Dadaism, the wider output of Factory Records and Scott Walker, and, encouraged by the autonomous ad-hoc philosophies and glimpses of diversity they perceived in punk and DIY, they set out to capture their own contribution to the subculture that had inspired them.

At that time most of the band were on the dole but given the necessary financial support by a few generous friends they managed to pull together the funds to book a producer and a session at their local Lavant Village Hall. In the many notes and articles documenting the day – as well their overall approach to the economics of manufacturing the record – they reveal an endearingly irreverent engagement with the process: 

‘The band set up in the small meeting room and Alan [Williams, the producer] is in the main hall. Leads and whirring black boxes everywhere. It’s a Sunday…there’s a cricket match outside on the village green…it’s sunny. Everyone is happy – or total[ly] confused. Drums sound like cardboard boxes. Can we have more echo? Ok. Chris’ effect boxes make a horrid buzz. Wasp synth operated by balancing 10p’s on middle C. Sounds too much like tape hiss…can you do something else with it like a swirling wind noise?…Liz loses her melodica halfway through a take and everyone cracks up. Take three. We’ll get it next time. Things like this make for a happy chance throughout the day. The songs are done live and are in the can (hip expression) after only a few takes. At about 10pm we all leave very tired but dead chuffed with the end result.’

The outcome was ‘Flight & Pursuit’, a record that they pressed up 500 copies off to sell at a CND gig a few weeks later. In the aftermath of the release IDC courted interest from Cherry Red, re-recorded an updated (though now lost) version of the single and ended up appearing on a bill with The Passage. Most of the group – apart from Ashley – moved to Manchester and started enjoying the city and its nightlife, going on regular outings to the Hacienda. As a result, the group became divided by circumstance and they each went their separate ways, eventually starting new lives and families away from IDC and their other formative endeavours.

Still, with only the one record to their name, IDC left a potent legacy that endures. With ‘Flight & Pursuit’ they fashioned an immaculate work of introverted, mesmeric post-punk suffused with the kind of stately delicacy only ever found in the superior material of the Marine Girls and the Young Marble Giants; qualities that, in the manner of IDC’s execution, feel entwined with a more fiercely guided, brooding and dubwise impetus. ‘Flight & Pursuit’ initially slipped under the radar yet has since become a hallowed curiosity, accruing a reputation that the group always deserved. Although a product of momentary inspiration made by a peripheral group with limited resources, it’s quite possibly one of the finest, one-off post-punk 7”s ever. 

In the wake of the record’s rerelease – lovingly reissued by ‘our lot’ aka Outer Reaches – we discussed the story of ‘Flight & Pursuit’ and IDC with two of its creators, Lizzy Dowling and Douglas Barrett. In their answers they reveal a group shaped by a guileless enthusiasm for art and music and, as Lizzy relates, a record that is merely part of ‘a wider shared history’. 

(Key – LD = Lizzy Dowling, DB = Douglas Barrett) 

Can you trace the beginnings and who the respective members of Indifferent Dance Centre were? How did you all meet and how did you end up forming the group? What were your individual tastes like and how did they come together in IDC?

LD: We met at school and college via friends. In the mid to late 70s, music tended to define your friendship group and we were no different to our peer group in this respect. Forming a group was again something that you just did at this point. All our friends were in groups. We were lucky that we were able to put on live shows as Mark White and Eddie Riff…both a few years older than us…put on monthly gigs and organised band nights in a local community centre. It was through this that we also met other bands etc. We mostly liked the same music at this point. I loved the fashion and attitude of punk and also the fact that women were part of it…it never felt like something girls weren’t a part of…which some of the mid 70s progressive rock music did…music that was big in the boys school 6th form. Before punk I liked pop and what used to be called “disco”. Once the initial creativity of the first  punk groups passed we were massively into Joy Division, Factory, Gang of Four etc. Chris had quite eclectic tastes and introduced me to The Doors and Scott Walker.

DB: Obviously Ashley and I grew up together as brothers. I think we met Lizzy in the final year at high school, she then met Christopher at college. Chichester Roc Society was the focal  point on Saturday night for us, Mark and Ed would squeeze in as much punk as they dared. Buzzcocks, Mekons, Gang of Four and obviously lots of the usual Factory stuff. 

The band name has been hailed in some quarters as inspired. It’s up there with The Spunky Onions in my book. Do you remember how you arrived at such a name?

LD: I think I came up with the name but I can’t remember how or why now. I was quite into Dada art and it may have been influenced by this, just a random collection of words with no real meaning. 

As a place that falls outside the purview of more active centres of art and music what was it like growing up and being based in Chichester? Were there many places to go see exhibitions and live music etc? As a band did you ever feel part of a wider community of artists / musicians? What were the benefits / downsides of starting a band and coming from a relatively smaller-sized town like Chichester

LD: Chichester was quite conservative…in attitude and politics..so it did give you the feeling of being outsiders in a sense. We were all quite political and this was the beginning of the Thatcher years …but again this wasn’t unique to us. If you look at the old NME/ Sounds etc, politics was integral to this era. You couldn’t listen to the Gang of Four and not be interested in the politics behind the songs. Thanks to Mark and Eddie and we always felt part of something that was more than just us 4. Our friends were in bands, wrote fanzines, were artists etc. Chichester is also close to Portsmouth, Brighton and London and we saw pretty much all the big punk and post punk bands. I think being outside of the big cities did give you a chance to develop in your own way. No one was looking for the next big thing in Chichester! 

DB: Yes. It forced you to head further afield to hear what you wanted. Begging lifts, running for the last train. Lots of happy memories. 

There’s an insert that came with the original release and several other documents that detail ‘The Making of the IDC Single’ with references to the example set by The Buzzcocks ‘Spiral Scratch’ and The Desperate Bicycles. There’s a lot of conviction in the writing as to the merits of doing it all yourself, albeit with a fair amount of irreverence. How would you describe IDC’s engagement with these and other influential records and your alignment with punk / DIY more broadly? In the same writings there’s an account of the day you went to Lavant Village Hall to record the single. What do you remember about the day?

LD: We were very much of the “do it yourself” era…it was part of the wider philosophy of punk/ post punk…but in a practical sense we had to be…no one was really interested in what came out of Chichester. All the influential labels were in cities. The record was financed by our friends, Tim, Russell, Bobby and others all put their hands in their pockets and gave £20 each…which at the time was quite a lot of money as most of us were signing on. I remember very little about recording the single other than the fact we scratched the Lavant Village Hall memorial table..there’s an analogy in there somewhere I suspect!

DB: Hazy memories to be honest. We had played live at Lavant village hall a couple of times so it seemed to be the natural place at the time. I remember Alan being set up with his desk in the main hall while we were squeezed into a small side room. We recorded both songs live in one take. You may be able to hear a buzz on the single? Caused by Christopher’s chorus pedal having a loose wire.

There seems to have been a lot of influences in the mix with, for instance, the use of melodica and wind noises recalling some of the sounds and studio craft of dub. What did you initially envisage the single sounding like? What were your reactions when you got hold of a copy after the recording sessions? What kind of effect did the producer you brought in – Alan Williams – have on the end result?

LD: I’m not sure what I expected really. We never set out to have a definitive sound or style in the sense that we never sat down and said “let’s look like this or let’s sound like this” it was just who were we at the time. Chris was always interested in trying out new and different ideas and I think he came up with the melodica etc. He was good at listening to things in a very forensic way and would comment on the production, structure of songs and this made him quite inventive. 

DB: Well the melodica was really influenced by the Gang of Four, who used one occasionally. They were cheap and sounded good. Simple as that. Alan was great. He did the sound for many of the gigs we attended in Brighton, especially the Piranhas. That’s how we met him, supporting the Piranhas. He just listened and did what we asked, a perfect fit, I think. 

The artwork’s an interesting visual counterpart to the music with the different versions of the original release featuring an image of a group of fishermen on one version and a Man Ray-esque portrait of a sleeping woman on the other. Where did these materials originate from and what kind of relevance did they hold for the members of IDC?

LD: Again, I can’t remember clearly but Alex Johnson who is now a successful artist had introduced me to Dada, Bauhaus etc and Chris was really into art and photography  so I suspect it came from that.

The lyrics are stunning. What do you recall about how these were put together? What was your impression on first hearing Lizzy (Dowling) sing them? How did they connect with you and the other members?

LD: I wrote all our lyrics. I hate hearing myself sing so I was probably horrified! 

DB: I think we all thought that musically and lyrically it was the best thing we had done. It’s great to hear the C.A.R rework, it’s made me more aware of the lyrics, how good they are. 

How would you describe the experiences you had playing live with IDC?

LD: Mostly I enjoyed playing live. We were in front of friends, so it never felt risky.

DB: I loved playing live, but I did get nervous. Christopher would often disappear ten minutes before we were due on. That always a bit of extra tension!

What happened to IDC in the aftermath of the single release?

LD: We carried on for a while after the single. I think Cherry Red were interested in us but decided we were too much like another group in the end…and we did a cassette tape, which I think was better than the single…although my copy disappeared years ago so I may be wrong. Sometime after we played a live gig with Manchester band The Passage…who were big on the indie scene at the time…and we decided it was time to head to the big city, in this case Manchester. We moved to Hulme in Manchester and the band sort of fell apart. There was too much else going on in terms of going clubbing, new relationships etc. 

DB: Yes, we re-recorded the single in a proper studio, just because we were offered the chance for free. No idea where that recording is but I’m happy to have the original as our legacy. Ashley didn’t want to move up north so it just kind of drifted into boozy nights at the newly opened Hacienda etc. 

After the group broke up did you stay in touch with the other band members? What did each of you pursue afterwards?

LD: We are all still friends. I came back to Chichester when I was pregnant with my eldest daughter and did a history degree. I gave up singing…unless I am in my car…but I’m still interested in music. Friends from Chichester have mostly ended up in Brighton, Bobby DJs with Kinfolk and Douglas does occasional DJing and they keep me up to date with new stuff. We spent a lot of time in clubs together after IDC and we still hit the occasional dance floor together.

DB: We’re certainly all friends. Christopher is in France and I have regular contact. I think that music still forms the backbone of our lives. I certainly still buy and listen to a lot of new stuff, lots of gigs, jazz especially. 

What are some of your fondest memories of being in IDC?

LD: It was fun being creative in a very none pressured environment. No one had any idea where it was going and we weren’t especially ambitious. We were just doing something we enjoyed with friends who were of the same mind…and we saw some amazing and influential bands. It was a good time to be young.

DB: I agree, I’m so happy to have grown up then. Pretty much only happy memories. 

Listening back now what do you make of the single and IDC’s history?

LD: It’s something to be able to say we released a single. I don’t really think of “IDC” history because it is so closely tied up with us as friends…it was about having fun and a shared love of music with my friends and I still have fun and share music with these friends today. It’s just part of a wider shared history. 

DB: We were just a group of friends trying to play music. I used to cringe when I’d hear the record in company. To see the interest in it now has certainly changed that. I feel proud to have taken part and I’m certainly grateful for the contribution made by all our friends and family at the time. People like Mark and Ed, John Stephens (the procurer of cheap guitars). These people make a huge difference in a small town. Thanks to you guys for seeing something worth resurrecting in our record too.

Flight & Pursuit / Release 7” is out now on Outer Reaches. Listen / Order HERE. 

Flight & Pursuit x Outer Reaches T-Shirt available for a limited time (until 20th December) on Everpress HERE.